Gary Bartz and Ntu Troop: A Look Back

Gary Bartz

My first real gig as a New Yorker was with Gary Bartz. In the late 80's and early 90's, I would go to listen to Bartz play at jazz clubs like The Closet and The New Haven Lounge in Baltimore, and the One Step Down and Twins in Washington D.C. So in 1994, when Bartz needed a sub in the piano chair, I already knew his repertoire, and I knew what he liked to hear from his accompanists (Baltimore- based pianist Bob Butta was a longtime associate of Bartz, and a huge influence on my piano playing). Soon after, when Bartz had a gig at Sweet Basil's in New York City, I got the call to join his band. As a member of the Gary Bartz Quartet, I got to record with him on his second album for the Atlantic label called "The Blue Chronicles: Tales Of Life". It was an unforgettable experience and one of the highlights of my career.

I think Gary Bartz is one of those artists like trumpeter Woody Shaw, or tenor saxophonist Billy Harper, who are overlooked by writers and historians simply because, during the 1970's, they didn't do the extreme fusion of bands like Mahavishnu Orchestra or Return To Forever. Those who are really in the know have much praise for Bartz, but I think he has been deserving wider recognition for years. He has played with all the greats: Miles Davis, Charles Mingus, Art Blakey, McCoy Tyner, Max Roach, etc...Still, like many jazz greats who aren't young prodigies or ancient masters, Bartz doesn't get the critical acclaim he should.

Gary Bartz is a very humorous person; he can tell hilarious stories with a delivery which is reminiscent of master comedians like Richard Pryor or Redd Foxx. But he is also very socially and politically aware of things. There is a CD I picked up recently which shows his political side in detail. It's a remastering of two records, which were then combined on one CD: "Harlem Bush Music-Taifa" and "Harlem Bush Music-Uhuru" both feature a band which Gary led in the 70's called Ntu Troop. (Ntu comes from the African Bantu languages, which is a sub-branch of Niger-Congo languages, the most common being Swahili. According to Bartz' website, "NTU means unity in all things, time and space, living and dead, seen and unseen.) This group consisted of Bartz on alto and soprano saxophones and vocals, Andy Bey on vocals, Juni Booth on acoustic and electric basses, and Harold White on drums. Nat Bettis plays percussion at times. (On most of "Uhuru", Ron Carter substitutes on bass. Not too shabby!)

Malcolm X

The fact that the two "Harlem Bush Music" records were fused into one CD release could make one assume that both records were originally one studio session, but it seems that this is not the case. But there is a consistency to the sound and the spirit of the entire disc, which makes a complete listen-through totally satisfying. The sonic texture overall is very organic. Even with electric bass, you get a very acoustic, earthy feeling from the entire CD. The intention here is to channel Mother Africa as the basis for everything in jazz: blues, bebop, funk, free jazz, etc...Not to mention the unapologetic activist viewpoints exhibited, especially in songs like "The Vietcong"(This is 1970: the Vietnam War was in full swing, in case you forgot...) and also "The Warrior's Song", a very intense free piece, during which Bartz overdubs himself reading an excerpt from a speech by the Civil Rights Leader Malcolm X: 

                                   

                                            "I say bluntly that you have had a generation of Africans who actually believed that you could negotiate, negotiate, negotiate and eventually get some kind of independence. But you're getting a new generation that has been growing, right now, and they're beginning to think with their own minds and see that you can't negotiate up on freedom nowadays. If something is yours by right, then fight for it or shut up. If you can't fight for it, then forget it."

Bartz goes on to quote another of his inspirations, tenor saxophonist John Coltrane:

                                       

John Coltrane

                               "You know, I want to be a force for real good. In other words, I know that there are bad forces, forces put here that bring suffering to others and misery to the world, but I want to be the force which is truly for good."

I find this to be an interesting juxtaposition, which is probably a common inner conflict for revolutionary thinkers: We want change, but do we remain peaceful, or force change by any means necessary? Political messages in music are so rare now that I found this thread of protest in the music to be extremely enlightening.

We think of Bartz as an alto saxophone master. Bartz has claimed in interviews that his main influence was Charlie Parker; however, many of his fans see him as the post-Coltrane alto-and-soprano man. His tone quality is unmistakable; it's very dark and reedy, and Bartz can add a little edge to his tone for emotional effect, but it never sounds harsh. On this collection, he is very unabashedly playing the blues, but Bartz has always been able to mix many elements into a very cohesive improvisational concept. So there will be blues, but some bebop will occur, and also he might surprise you by quoting a few standards, maybe some folk melodies, perhaps some Coltranish saxophonistic vocabulary will jump out. But it's never forced; it always sounds natural. 

(I remember when we were recording "The Blues Chronicles", we were doing several takes of a Bartz original entitled "...And He Called Himself A Messenger". On one of the takes, during Bartz' solo, he quoted a sort of obscure song  called "Delilah"(that appears on a Clifford Brown/Max Roach record called "Jordu"). It was so unexpectedly beautiful, it worked perfectly with the changes, it was so inspired that people in the studio were looking at each other and laughing in disbelief! Even those who didn't know the tune were enthralled. Sadly, they didn't use that take on the CD. And the funny thing for me was that in the remaining years I worked in Bartz' band, I never heard him quote that song again!)

On "People Dance", Bartz gets into a vibe where he is almost literally talking or laughing with the alto, using micro tonality to get the effect of human speech. And as the clear bandleader, Bartz has always been expert using his saxophone to "set up" the groove of the song, or change the tempo, or even make a segue or transition into another song, as if he is the master storyteller with the village musicians gathering around him to listen. 

Andy Bey

The earthiness of the music here is enhanced by many vocals, a surprising number of them provided by Bartz; "Blue" features him in his "debut as blues pianist and as a blues singer". But without question, the vocal star here is the incomparable Andy Bey; his rich baritone has the slightest vibrato, and when he goes into his upper register, it's even more impassioned. And the alto and voice blend beautifully well. This brings me to the issue of harmony: due to the lack of a "chordal" instrument like piano (with the exception of "Blue") or guitar, you could call this a "chord-less" band. However, there are many implied harmonies, and much of it is pedal point based (meaning one constant bass note and chords moving above it, but always related to the bass). And there is some vocal overdubbing on songs like "Du(Rain)", where some interestingly dissonant counterpoint is created, and "Parted," the story of an enslaved African man separated from his lady, which has vocal harmonies that might remind one of the South African singing group Ladysmith Black Mambazo. The intention here is to get back to the roots of the music, which means omitting the European structural harmonic influences for a moment. Speaking as a pianist, I am fine with it!

Gary Bartz is still out there playing better than ever: These days he is touring with the legendary pianist McCoy Tyner. He also has his own label, OYO Records( Own Your Own! -which refers to the fact that most musicians don't own the rights to their own material. Bartz, ever the revolutionary, is part of the shifting tide of musicians taking the reigns of their own destiny. Additionally, OYO is also a tribe in Nigeria). For more information about Gary Bartz, please go to his website:

http://www.garybartz.com

And "Harlem Bush Music - Taifa / Uhuru" is available here:

http://www.amazon.com/Harlem-Bush-Music-Taifa-Uhuru/dp/B000003L99 

The Steve Wilson Interview

GC: I'm very happy to have the opportunity to interview a musician that I've worked with a lot over the years. When people say that a musician has "worked with everybody in the business", well, Steve Wilson has literally worked with everyone in Jazz. It would be hard to name somebody that he hasn't worked with in Jazz. I feel like this is kind of a coup from my jazz blog, which is in the early stages. 

I feel like we could talk about anything and it would be interesting. Besides biographical information that it most likely on your website, could you talk about your beginnings as a musician. What was the defining moment for you to choose this life? Did you come from a musical family?Was becoming a musician gradual or was there something you can pinpoint where you said to yourself, "There's no turning back. I have to play music"?

Eddie Harris

SW: Well, It was gradual , but there were a few key moments. Because I had decided by the time I was a teenager, about 14 or 15 years old, that this was what I was going to do. And what really inspired that desire more than anything was the opportunity to see a few of the great musicians live at the jazz festival  in Hampton, Virginia, where I grew up. So the first time that I got to see Eddie Harris live, Cannonball Adderly live , Rashaan Roland Kirk live, those three guys pretty much is what did it for me. And I saw them when I was around 9 or 10. My father had some of their recordings. And the two recordings that I remember the most were Quincy Jones " Walking In Space", which had everybody on it, and Cannonball Adderly's " Country Preacher". Those were two very popular recordings at the time. As a matter of fact,  you might say that they were two of the last jazz hits, if you want to call it that. My father and some of his friends had those recordings, so when we went over to his friends house, those recordings among others were playing. So when I saw those artists LIVE.....man, that was a pivotal moment. Not that I really understood it at that age, but I loved the energy,I loved the groove, I loved the sound, I loved the audience reaction, and I just loved the look of the band, you know, "Look at these cats playing music...".  That was it, that's what made me decide I wanted to do it.

GC: You went to VCU?

SW: Virginia Commonwealth University, yes.

GC: Did you think that going to VCU was the logical choice for a career in music? Was that as important as moving to New York, or was it a sort of a preview of things to come? What was your experience there, working with Doug Richards?

Johnny Hodges

SW: That was really THE move for me to make at the time. Although I didn't know how important it would become. I had been touring with an R&B cover band, which I enjoyed, but I wanted to go to school and I was thinking about going to Berklee. But then I got a chance to hear the VCU Big Band at my high school, and they were playing charts by Thad Jones, Gil Evans, and Duke Ellington and I said " Man , that's what I want to do." So I went to VCU and it turns out it was the best move I could have made. Had I gone to Berklee around that time-this was 1979, 1980-I would have been overwhelmed for a few reasons:  Moving to a city like Boston would have been a shock, since I'm from Hampton, Virginia, which is not exactly a sprawling metropolis. Plus,  when you consider who some of the students at Berklee were at the time, A lot of heavyweights like Branford Marsalis, Donald Harrison, Kevin Eubanks.....I think it would have been overwhelming. So I think going to Richmond and VCU was the move and I don't regret a minute of it. And that's because I learned some things that maybe I would not have learned elsewhere, such as the early music of Duke Ellington. That's how I became a fan of Johnny Hodges, who is still my favorite saxophone player....

GC: Wow!

SW: And my first year I was studying oboe, I actually got in on an oboe scholarship.

GC: Really?

SW: Yes, although I gave it up after the first year. And I was also playing Baritone Saxophone in the big band, so I got to play all of these Harry Carney parts, and Pepper Adams parts, and I don't believe that I would have gotten that experience anywhere else. So I feel like those experiences really gave me a foundation that still serves me today in everything and anything that I do.

GC: Were your parents musical?

Amhad Jamal

SW: My father had a great collection of recordings. He wasn't a collector, he had a small collection. But they were choice recordings. One recording that really stands out is Ahmad Jamal's "Live At The Pershing.". That recording might have been what really turned me on to music. I think I was about 3 or 4  years old checking out that recording.

GC: Amazing:

SW: I would just listen to that record over and over. " Poinciana" was a big hit at the time...... I would beg my mother, "Mommy, mommy, put the record back on. And there were some other recordings...Miles Davis " Live at Antibes". Miriam Makeba's " Pata Pata", some Mario Lanza, and Johnny Mathis, and some Motown, and Staxx, so it was a whole variety of music that I was listening to. Also, we went to church most Sundays, and my father used to sing in an all-male spiritual choir. I used to travel with them and sit in the front row and listen to them. Furthermore, Hampton Institute, which is now Hampton University, was renowned for their gospel and spiritual concerts, which were conducted by a guy named Roland Carter, who is now in Pittsburgh. 

There was a local piano player that my father was friends with named Joe Jones. They called him " Virginia" Joe Jones. He had played with Dizzy Gillespie briefly in the 50's. He was one of these guys that knew all the old tunes. He was one of these gunslinger type of cats. He wasn't a super trained musician like cats are today....but anyway, all of these things were an influence on me.

GC: So it seems that there would be no surprise that you became a musician, because music was all around you. It was part of the culture. Not that your parents forced you to play instruments, but it was natural. Was your family surprised or supportive?

SW: I had always shown an affinity for the drums, particularly. Most kids are attracted to drums, when you see parades, etc....My parents got me a drumset for Christmas...

GC: I didn't know you played drums!

SW: Well, I'm a frustrated drummer above all.....

GC: Aren't we all?

SW: Well...

GC: Even the drummers! (laughter)

SW: Right!( also laughing) I never pursued being a trained drummer, because around age 8 or 9 I knew I wanted to focus on the saxophone. At some point in high school, I had thought about becoming a social worker, but my parents always recognized that I have an affinity towards music. At first they thought it was a phase, but then they were supportive. I had already started playing professionally as soon as I learned the horn. Also, everybody in the neighborhood played music, all the kids played music. There were two things we did in my neighborhood, played music and played sports. So we started to form garage bands. We put different bands together, and we were playing school dances by the time we were 14 and 15 years old. And then we would play at the Elk's lodge or some of the clubs around the city. So basically all of my activity was music, or sports. So I don't think it was a surprise to my folks when at 17 or 18 years old, I was definitely choosing to be a musician.
GC: What year did you move to New York:
SW: 1987. I was 26 years old.
GC: Was it a shock? I mean you were already working with Stephanie Mills?
SW: Actually that was in 1981-82. I went back to school, and then stayed in Richmond for a while, and then moved to New York. But I had been making periodic trips to New York. And also I was playing with the band Out Of the Blue. Kenny Garrett had contacted me and told me that the alto chair was open in that band. So I was already working some. But yes, it was a shock because in Richmond, I worked constantly, but when I moved to New York at first there was very little work off the bat. Out of the Blue wasn't working that much, it was kind of the end of their run. But I just networked for a while and it started to snowball.
GC: It seemed to me for a while you were with every band out there. I saw you playing in Geoffrey Keezer's band, James Williams band, Ralph Peterson's band, Buster Williams band. Did you ever play with Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers?
SW: No, I never did. I played with him once in Mount Fuji in Japan, with the Art Blakey Big Band, but I was never in the Messengers.
GC: It's probably impossible to plan on having a career as illustrious as yours, but what would tell a young musician who aspires to this kind of sideman career? Especially as a non-rhythm section player?

Victor Lewis

SW: Ironically, my three main role models in my first years in New York were drummer Victor Lewis, bassist Ray Drummond, and pianist Kenny Barron. And the reason was that that those guys worked every week in New York, either collectively or in other configurations. If you picked up the newspaper, you would see those guys playing with somebody every week. And I went to see them play with bands, and I realized that the reason that they were so in demand was that they made everyone they played with sound good! They could fit into any situation and make it work and also keep their own identity as well. It's ironic that rhythm sections players were my inspiration in that respect. I mean, there were horn player that inspired me as well, of course.

Did I plan on the career that I have had? No, I moved to New York thinking that maybe I would be here for a year and then I would have to leave. I never thought that things would turn out the way they did. I tell people that I've been here for 23 years, and this is the longest year I've spent anywhere! 

All the young musicians are different. Some players come to me and say they want to be sideman ... some say they just want to be leaders. Some tell me they want to be a star! I tell them just to be open to different styles and different situations. 

It's interesting because when I moved here, during the whole Young Lions phase when all the labels were signing young cats on the jazz scene, there were all different cliques. And people would try to pigeonhole me. They would see me playing with somebody and say, "You must be from New Orleans."  And I would say, "No, I'm from Virginia!" So I was never tied to one clique, I tried to keep and open mind, and I never wanted to do it on the heels of someone else's success. I had to start from scratch on my own. 

So in keeping an open mind, I was open to playing and sitting in with all different types of situations: I was sitting in with Jon Faddis' band, David Murray's octet, I was playing with the American Jazz Orchestra, I would sub in the Vanguard Band, I was playing with African Bands sometimes.....I think if a young musician can keep an open mind like I did, then opportunities will come. I don't think you can afford to be closed minded, especially the way the scene is today.

GC: How has your career as a sideman affected your career as a leader positively or negatively?

SW: I'm still figuring that out! It's been a double edged sword. I have been lucky to play in different bands and observe how to be a leader. I say to players, even if they can't or don't want to work with different bands, go check them out and ask them how to be a bandleader.

GC: Do you think some people are looking for a short cut to stardom?

SW: Well, yes, because the problem is the apprenticeship  system has been killed. The industry killed it in the 80's and 90's with the Young Lions phase. They took away the opportunity to develop as musicians. I could name a whole slew of cats that were put out there as leaders without working with anybody, and they weren't ready, and now they aren't around anymore. If they had been allowed to develop, maybe things would have been different for them. 

For me, it's worked for me because I've gotten to work with so many great bands. But unfortunately, concert presenters tend to not see me as a bandleader, they only perceive me as a sideman. A lot of older musicians have the same problem, no matter how much credibility they have, the promoters don't see them as leaders. Oftentimes, there is nothing you can do about it except to keep pushing your material, develop an audience, make good music, and hopefully promoters will change their minds eventually.

GC: I had a promoter tell me to my face that I was a great sideman but that I just didn't have what it takes to be a leader! And then he gave an example of one of my peers (who will remain nameless) who he thought had much more charisma and stage presence and that they had what it takes and I didn't. It was crushing and I still disagree because I want to do more as a leader. But it was a real wake-up call. How do you convince them? Some say you have to completely stop being a sideman and only be a leader. Is it possible? Is it possible financially?

SW: Well, I tried to do that, just focus on being a leader. I tried that in the early 90's. Out of the Blue had just broken up. I will still working as a sideman. But I was meeting label people and presenters, and many of them were saying "We want to give you a shot!" So I started to get into it, but I didn't have an agent. So I was trying to book myself. And I was spending so much time on the phone, like 6 hours a day, and it was not yielding results. And I wasn't getting to spend any time on my horn! So I sort of gave up for another 10 years because it was so frustrating. I'm actually glad I gave it up at that time because I developed more musically.  

There are always going to be a few people who can handle being a leader at a young age. But that is the exception, not the rule. But the industry was trying to tell us differently in the 80's and 90's.  I call it the Wynton Effect. Not that I blame Wynton, but what happened was that the record companies saw the success of Wynton Marsalis, being a leader so young, and they tried to apply that business model to everyone. And it had a big effect on the music. Because musicians my age and older, Between 45 and 60, who should have their own bands and should be out there nurturing young musicians, they can't do it because the industry doesn't see us as artists with statements to make. I don't say this with bitterness: The business is what it is. We can't force them to see us this way. I don't try to force anybody: I'm at the age where I just don't give a shit! I can go out and play any gig as a sideman or a leader, and I can just enjoy it. I don't have an agenda.

GC: What would you tell a young musician who is trying to develop their jazz vocabulary?

SW: I remember when I met Jackie McLean in Japan. He told me, "Man, I hear what you are trying to get to. But remember, all of the new music is behind us." It really stopped me in my tracks! what he was trying to say was,"I hear you trying to play this new thing, but you need to go back and hear where it came from". And he is absolutely right. You can't just formulate your own language in a vacuum. Louis Armstrong didn't do it. Duke Ellington didn't do it. They listened to the people that came before them and the music that was around them at the time. Thelonious Monk didn't do it. Charlie Parker didn't do it. Trane......they all listened to somebody else. You can't just say "I want to play my thing." 

If you go back and listen to Jelly Roll Morton, Debussy, Stravinsky, Ellington, Copeland, you'll find that many things that musicians think are new new are not new, it's already been addressed. For example, when you look at Johnny Hodges, some people assume he was just somebody who played these glissandi and pretty notes. If you go back and listen to some early recordings of Hodges, you'll find that he was technically mind-boggling for the time, playing fast passages and with flawless technique. So my point is do your homework and then figure out your own language. You can't come up with convincing jazz language in a vacuum.

GC: Do you think that students now think you can learn how to play jazz in a weekend? I feel like they don't understand the commitment that is necessary to become a great player, even a good player. Do you think many jazz students, after 4 years of college, are going to get discouraged when they realize that even 4 years of college is not enough to even scratch the surface in terms of this music?

SW: I remember Betty Carter coming through when I was at VCU. And she said, "Many of you won't go to New York, many of you will not become great jazz soloists, many of you in this room will end up doing something else." So I think jazz education is not necessarily about creating stars: Many will become educators, many will do something else in the field of music. I t runs the gamut in terms of what the jazz student will become. No question that a few will go on to become significant practitioners of the music. Without a doubt the talent is there: some of the students I am seeing know stuff that I didn't know until I left college. Due to the information age, some of these students are exposed to things in a way that wasn't possible twenty years ago. But even with all that talent and knowledge, it still doesn't mean that anyone is guaranteed a career. But I think many of the students will graduate after four years with a degree and realize they they are just at the beginning. And part of the problem is that jazz school can't replace the way that this music was created: through the oral tradition. Jazz music is not a product of Academia! It's a byproduct of a culture. Classical Music
is the byproduct of a culture! Although academia would have you believe otherwise!(laughing) That's why it's up to the student to seek out the older practitioners of the art form and ask questions. 
GC: I feel like at age 40 I'm just getting started with understanding the music. I ran into Jon Hendricks a few years ago, and he told me that "it takes a lifetime to learn this music". And he was in his 70's at the time. Do you think, in this era of instant gratification, that students can have the patience to survive the lifelong journey of musical development?
SW: I think it's possible. It's very possible. We are in the midst of a cultural shift, some say a cultural war.The students will have to figure that out. It is a lifetime study. I tell students: " This is a marathon, not a sprint.!" And a lot of it is who is left standing when you are 70 or 80, like a Jon Hendricks. You could become a star at 25, but you might not be a star at 30. So you need to be prepared when you aren't a star. And what's going to carry you the rest of the way. There is a real ebb and flow in terms of what we perceive as success. But REAL success is when you have the tools and resolve to keep practicing your craft when nobody's looking. But I do think it's possible. It will be hard for some to shake the cultural tendency to say," If I don't make it by the time I'm 25, then I don't want to do this." But some will figure it out, and I do think we will be in good shape musically.

Last New York Gig Of The Summer and The Lauren Sevian Interview

The night before my flight back to Winnipeg, I had my last gig in New York of the summer at The Kitano, a comfortable jazz spot in a nice Japanese style hotel at 38th and Park Avenue. I was performing with a young baritone saxophonist named Lauren Sevian. (Sevian's debut CD as a leader is called "Blueprint" on Inner Circle Music, a label started by alto saxophone great Greg Osby, and I was lucky to have the opportunity to play on the CD with bassist Boris Kozlov and drummer Johnathan Blake.) The gig was a lot of fun, with a talented young bassist named Marcos Valera on bass and my good friend E.J. Strickland on drums. They have a well maintained Steinway piano at the club, and it's as smooth as butter to play on it. We performed tunes from the CD mostly, and Lauren's alto saxophone playing husband Mike DiRubbo sat in on " Gesture of No Fear". (I laugh because , according to Sevian,  "gesture of no fear" is a restorative yoga pose, however, the harmonic obstacle course of this up-tempo workout makes me think of Coltrane's Giant Steps on steriods!)

Sevian has an approach that is un-baritone saxophonish, if that makes any sense. She goes for some tense note choices, and will lay on them, which comes across as more daring due to the edge and power of the baritone. And her writing is unique. She doesn't make melodies which typify the bari sax. Sevian is new to band-leading, but she leads with a quiet confidence which makes a relaxed, creative atmosphere in which to make music.

It was a great night, the audience was intimate but wildly enthusiastic. I felt like it was a satisfying way to end my summer vacation in NYC. After the performance, Sevian and I talked about doing an interview for my newborn blog...

GC: Do you think of yourself, if at all, as a baritone saxophone player, or a musician, or maybe both?

 LS: I think of myself but mostly as a baritone saxophonist. Particularly because I don't really play any other instruments. I mean, I do a little bit but not like the bari. 

GC:  You started on alto? 
LS:  I did...but I don't even touch it anymore. I leave that to my husband.  
GC:  Ha! What made you want to switch? 
LS:  I felt like something was missing. I knew that I wanted to play saxophone but I wanted to try something different. My teacher at the time suggested that i try bari and I loved it! I knew right away that's what I wanted to play. That was around my sophomore year of high school. 
GC:  But I remember years ago at Augie's you would sit in on alto, while you were a student at Manhattan School of Music.
LS:  Aah... I did ONE time...I think my bari was in the shop. I still played a little alto at that point but I was starting to phase it out.
GC:  I see...Do you think you have gotten more opportunities because of making that change? 
LS:  Probably.  I mean, obviously there are many more alto and tenor players out there. 
There are fewer bari players...but there are also fewer gigs for a baritone players. It wasn't a calculated decision which is kind of funny. I just wanted to play bari. I wanted to be known exclusively as a baritone player. 
GC:  Yes, but I think one always has to figure out a way to stand out from the crowd, but it's always a risk. For example, Don Byron is a clarinet player first (although he actually played bari and other things) and there is not a lot of call for jazz clarinetists these days. But it makes him unique. Do you agree? Do you think as a bandleader you might have a niche as a bari player? 
Lauren:  I see your point. It does make him unique. I know him as a clarinetist. I didn't know that he played other instruments. I guess I can see myself as having a niche as a bari player bandleader. Most of the time the baritone is considered a big band instrument, or large ensemble instrument. I've tried to approach the baritone more like a tenor. 
GC:  Do you have musical heroes on Baritone Sax?

Ronnie Cuber

 LS:  Oh yeah...Pepper Adams, Ronnie Cuber, Nick Brignola, Cecil Payne...
GC:  Do you have influences that are not bari players? 
LS:  Coltrane, Dexter Gordon, Hank Mobley, McCoy Tyner....I could go on... 

GC:  Who did you study with at Manhattan School? What was your experience like there? 
LS:  My first year I studied with Joe Temperley and Steve Slagle, then 2nd and 3rd year I studied with Mark Turner, then my last semester I studied composition/arranging with Mike Abene. I had a pretty positive experience there. I met so many great people. Oh, I also was studying with Donny McCaslin the same years i was studying with Mark... 

Mark Turner

GC:  I've always wanted to study with Mark Turner. I had to settle for hiring him for some recordings and tours. I also admire McCaslin a great deal.
LS:  Ha ! You had to settle for hiring him...that's funny. The amazing thing about Mark is how HUMBLE he is 
he has complete control over the instrument.he really inspired me to get better 
GC:  The thing I admire most about Mark is that he seems really dedicated to the horn and to music as a pursuit in itself. I think his career or commercial success is not even of interest. I don't think he even has a website! 
LS:  No, he doesn't!  Because he is ALL about the music. He's constantly practicing from what I've heard 
GC:  He's pretty methodical about it 
LS:  I remember him telling me about his practice routine, and it hit me that, here is this total bad-ass, and he still practices hours a day! Really inspiring
 GC:  Do you have a routine? 
LS:  I do. I need to do some sort of practice everyday. Although I admit I took yesterday off...I was pretty sore after the Kitano gig! I'm at the point where I've changed my routine due to my lifestyle. In other  words, I've been in too many situations where I've had to jump on the bandstand and start playing after traveling all day and not at least getting to do my long tones. So now I usually start off with a tune, then switch to long tones, then another tune, then pattern or scale practice, etc...Now I'm mostly practicing tunes.
 GC:  Do you ever use Aebersold play -along records? I mean CDs......or do you just hear everything in your head? 
LS:  I usually like to practice along with recordings when I'm learning a new tune...so I get the correct phrasing. I used to use Aebersolds but not so much anymore. If I know a tune pretty well, and I know the changes, then I can practice it without the record.  
GC:  Describe your approach to composition. Do you use a piano? or just write at the horn? or both? And how did the tunes for the CD come about? 
LS:  I used to compose initially on the piano. but then most of what I wrote wasn't appropriate range-wise for the bari. So I started composing on the baritone. Then once I got the melody I would work out the changes on the piano. Or sometimes I heard the changes in my head. Most of the tunes from the CD were composed on the bari, with the exception of three..."Elusive Illusion", "Gesture of No Fear", and "Intrepid Traveler.   "  So it really depends. With "Gesture of No Fear", the chord changes came first...while I was sitting in that yoga meditation pose! 
GC:  Wow! 
LS:  As you know, the beginning part has that little rhythmic thing, which I started hearing in my head, then the changes came to me. Yeah it was pretty nutty...It's funny, one of the tunes I did on the record, Intrepid Traveler, I have a taped lesson of him and me working on that tune. At the time it was in 3/4, but later on I changed it to 4/4. 
GC:  Describe your experience with the Mingus Band
LS:  I have had an incredible experience with the Mingus band.The first gig I ever did with them I was 23. I was petrified! But everyone was so nice to me...especially John Stubblefield when he was around. Playing with that band has been such a huge part of my musical development.And the baritone chair is so much fun! 
GC:  I remember doing some gig with the band and you got up and did Moanin'. ( Not the Bobby Timmons tune, the Mingus tune, for you readers.) And I was used to Ronnie Cuber, but I remember when you played, I said " Whoa, this is a different kind of approach!" I was impressed. 
LS:   Thanks! It definitely felt a bit surreal at first. I had listened to Ronnie's version so many times...and then the first time I played it I needed to figure out how to play it like myself. If that makes any sense 
GC:  I hear you. 
LS:  Incorporating your own language into someone else's music can be much more challenging than playing your own. You know? I mean, we all have influences that we draw upon, but ultimately we all have our own unique voice which will inevitably come out. 
GC:   Where do you see yourself in 5 or 10 years? Do you want to be a bandleader? Is there any artist out there you are dying to share the stage with as a side-person? 
LS:  In 5 or 10 years, I hope to have another record out, I also hope to be doing more gigs like I got to do the other night!  I'm happy to continue being a sideman but I want more...I want to be a bandleader, I want to push the baritone further as a solo instrument. Lets see...a dream gig for me would be to play with Steely Dan. And Cedar Walton. Maybe at the same time? That would be pretty cool... 
GC:  I'd like to work with Cedar Walton...Maybe I'll turn pages! 
LS:  ( Laughing) 
How about a piano duo? 
GC:  Well, I do know a lot of his tunes... 
LS:  Yeah... 
GC:  Last question: I really hate to talk about gender, but given the history of jazz, do you think that men should really be trying to play jazz?( Laughing)
Lauren:  I think with more time and acceptance there will be more men in the jazz field. (Laughter)